I catch a lot of flak for being “negative” from certain quarters, but whether you agree with me or disagree with me, one thing I am not is sneaky. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of a certain David Intersimone. VP Developer Relations and Chief Evangelist at Embarcadero. A list of job titles to which we should perhaps add “Chief Snippy Emailer“.
This morning he blogged about a demo camera app being used to demonstrate the cross platform capabilities of the FireMonkey runtime in Delphi XE5.
He appropriated the title from the first in my current series of articles which he mentions obliquely (without, I might add, even doing me the courtesy of linking back to it) demonstrating the development of a similar app using Oxygene for Android. I think he misconstrued that series of highly detailed, pull-no-punches, “warts and all” technical posts aimed at people curious about Oxygene as somehow trying to draw a comparison with FireMonkey and XE5.
It isn’t and wasn’t, and in any event his “rebuttal” post by contrast is notably lacking in any such detail.
Instead of answering some pertinent questions that I posted to his blog about some of the details of his app that he glossed over, I instead received the following email sent directly to me, complete with a “gag order”.
Inquiring minds want to know if you can reuse the same Oxygene project and code on iOS as you do in the steps for your Android Camera app?
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
I’m ignoring that gag order because a) it’s unenforceable nonsense and b) I think people deserve to know the sort of person that is appointed to the position of “VP Developer Relations” at a company like Embarcadero:
Now, have I made such snippy comments myself in the past ? Certainly I have.
But when I do they are in comments posted openly in public forums (either my own or others). Not in personal emails slapping the recipient with a gag order in the process.
But never mind the nature of the approach, even the attempted snip is laughable.
Of course “inquiring minds” aren’t wondering about this at all because, unlike Embarcadero, RemObjects are very open about their technology and approach. What it can do but more importantly what it can’t (and won’t) do and when it will be able to do more.
At the time of writing, David I has still not responded to specific and in my view quite reasonable questions about his app either in comments on my blog or his (he has not as yet even approved my comment asking those questions on his blog).
But he has found time to write me this snippy little missive.
Now of course this isn’t a huge issue at all. It’s not remotely serious. In fact if it weren’t so sad for what it says about the “bunker mentality” at Embarcadero it would be quite amusing.
I took the blog post by David I as informing Delphi or prospective Delphi developers of the approach they can use for iOS and Android with one code base.
Of course you did. He glossed over the platform specific details and the minimum requirements. And he hasn’t even approved my comment in which I asked perfectly reasonable questions about these aspects. Anyone not already familiar with those contingents and caveats is potentially misled without this information.
I think it would help if people realised that David I no longer fills a technical role. He is nothing more than a salesman these days imho.
I’m quite capable of clicking on the links to the wiki, reading the documentation, following the steps provided and understanding what devices my app will or won’t run on based on the documentation provided.
I’m sure people can determine for themselves what role David I does or doesn’t fill. I also don’t think there is anything wrong with him being a technical person involved in selling the products that the company he works for produces.
See my other reply – you may be capable of clicking those links but it would seem that you haven’t actually done so otherwise you would have the same questions about supported devices given that each of those resources says different things (if you were someone for whom it is actually important, which is not everyone).
As I explain, the point wasn’t his post per se (minor blogging etiquette transgressions aside). It was mentioned only in the interests of establishing the context for the unsolicited email.
I’m glad he found the time to write you back. I never got that same level of courteousness from him. Public relations in some companies is exactly that, “public.” When you deal with them in private, it’s all lies.
He didn’t “write me back”, he wrote to me uninvited.
I will not bother you with the subsequent emails I have received from him (I have had to ask him to stop). But it seems quite clear that he is for some reason incapable of giving a straight answer to a straight question.
Any chance he was simply asking a legitimate question?
Or that the signature was just part of their boilerplate e-mail template?
Maybe even the potential of being a real conversation?
And not necessarily snippiness or an attempt to server you with any kind of gag order?
It’s a particularly desperate reach to try to present it as a “legitimate question”. Even if you allow for a moment that someone might reasonably think that code written specifically against the Android SDK will run on iOS.
Unlike some of the information about FireMonkey in XE5 you don’t have to go digging for information to answer that question and then try to resolve conflicting messages from different sources provided by the same company. And if you mean to suggest that David I himself perhaps did not know the answer then this would itself raise further questions.
But I think we both know that you weren’t seriously suggesting that it was a legitimate question. 😉
As for it being boilerplate, he has said that it is, but so what ? Had he responded in the open forum of the blog comments there would have been no boilerplate, and choosing to send an email he knew that there would be.
Allow me to pre-empt your next defence, that he may not have had access to the web and had to respond by email:He had already – just minutes before – made a comment to my blog, drawing attention to his post. Of course, a ping-back would have done the same job, had he been courteous enough to actually link back to my article. But then ping-backs don’t come with added “;)”, which pretty much set the tone. I think even you would have to admit.
Correction: The comment referenced above was made anonymously and I do not know whether it was made by David I or not, although it is the case that there was no ping-back.
I agree with the above commenter. He might have been sarcastic but not necessarily snippy. The gag order is stupid but was probably a part of standard signature. And I don’t understand why open sarcasm is allowed but private sarcasm isn’t, both have their bad sides.
Who said private sarcasm wasn’t allowed ?
I’m pretty sure that “gag order” is insert automatically, even if they respond to emailed requests from spouses about where they’ll go for supper.
Pretty sure they can still eat supper without legal worries.
But way to misconstrue boiler plate as a personal attack.
I’ve said it before, I will say it again. Your personal gauge for this stuff is a little over sensitive, and frankly it hides real issues in a sea of noise. Seriously, you need to back it off for your own sake – I speak from personal experience (as I was also well known as a malcontent. There is still plenty I don’t like, but I try not to dwell on the stuff I can’t change anymore – leaves me more time to do something other than push steam out of my ears)
Where do you get the impression I took this as a “personal attack” ?
The post (provided for context) was clearly a side-swipe at my own contributions to the blog-o-sphere, and the email (the real point) was sent specifically and only to me, so it was undeniably “personal”. But “attack” ?
I made a point of saying that it would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. I certainly didn’t feel “attacked”. A little slighted perhaps. It’s simply bad form to so obviously reference a blog post without linking to it, what ?
I think you need to check your own gauges. 🙂
That’s not a personal attack on you – it’s on what you represent. The Pascal developer that has chosen for a future proven path in the modern world. The Fast and the Furious. EMB as well as Delphi are not equal Pascal. We should not mix up the fact that Oxygene is offered combined at an affordable price with the illusion of cross-platform capabilities out of the box.
Everyone feel free to choose for the one or the other path, maybe both. While both do not work the same way as the out of the box solution presented by the platform vendor. EMB’s as well as Remobjects challenge is not the same as the plat-form providers. Question is, can do I ignore the plat-form vendor and hand over the responsibility to ‘my’ tool vendor of choice for a certain period or not. In a next step the degree of integration has to be considered. Money can’t buy excellence.
The sales argument with one codebase for many plat-form weakens – because where do you go – someone who know Android or Delphi if you are seeking for a developer that should build you app.
I was suggesting that it wasn’t nearly as malicious as you make it out to be.
I suggest that you are making out that I took it to be more malicious than I did. 🙂
“Funny if it wasn’t so sad”
I don’t see David’s comment.
Did you ask him to provide a link back to your blog post?
Oops, you’re right. If it was he that made the original blog comment linking to his article then it was posted via a “wink” pseudonym (somewhat in my defense, but by no means an excuse, I wasn’t the only one to assume it was from David I).
Unrelated: Yes I did mention the lack of link back. This was entirely ignored in the three subsequent emails (I had to ask him to stop unless he was going to answer the questions put to him. He stopped).
Can you see why someone might think you’re overreacting?
I can’t comment on the e-mail exchange, but did you answer his question or questions?
I do think a return link would make sense.
All I did was share an email that I found both sad and amusing. I suppose you could call it a “reaction” as such, “over” if you wish. It was really just a response.
Yes I did answer David’s question, even though I felt it entirely redundant to do so and so the answer was couched in appropriately exasperated terms.
“the answer was couched in appropriately exasperated terms”
Sounds a little snippy.
he-he. I knew you were going to say that. 😉
Even you have to admit that “gag order” and the rhetoric around it seems like a bit of an over reaction.
“rhetoric” ? I don’t know whether to be flattered or to wonder why you would think it an over-reaction since you recognised it for what it was – hyperbole. 🙂
You’re right – some people are over-reacting. 😉
I think you are perhaps overreacting in many ways, particularly with regards to the Confidentiality Notice at the bottom of his email. As he is working for a fairly sizeable company he is probably required to include it in all email correspondence and not added for your benefit only.
I’ve met David I on a couple of occasions, and interacted with him in a number of on-line events, as well as email correspondence, and found him nothing but kind and courteous.
I think people are over-reacting to my reaction to the “gag order” which was entirely tongue in cheek. Self evidently there’s no way I would take it seriously even had I thought it was intended specifically at me, which I didn’t – it’s on all Embarcadero emails.
As for David being “Kind and courteous” ? Did I say anything to the contrary ?
I would however say that I consider it courteous to answer straight questions with straight answers and that is not something that I find to be the case with David except on those occasions that the answer is one that he finds agreeable. Otherwise he has an infuriating tendency to ignore the question entirely or answer one that he would have preferred you ask instead that does allow him to give an agreeable answer.
I don’t know who you are, but I want you to know that I am proud to have David I. as VP Developer Relations.
It is clear that when you write we Delphi developers “deserve to know the sort of person that is appointed to the position of ‘VP Developer Relations’ at a company like Embarcadero:”, your stated intention is to present an ‘expose’ of David I.
The evidence you present is minuscule, limited, and heavily redacted and editorialized – hardly convincing. (Remember, your many adjectives, where you attempt to inflate significance, are not evidence. They only point to your DESIRE to convince. This is a hallmark of propaganda.)
Over these many, many years I have only seen and heard David I. treat developers with respect and honesty. I cannot say that of you. (see your blog, above)
While you do have a “pull-no-punches” blog, I want you to know that you have not landed a glove on David I.
By reading the previous posts, you have failed in your stated purpose. You have not tarnished David I one bit.
You can trash this post any way you like, I will not be back.
Opening the trophy cabinet door is not what causes the silver to tarnish. The door merely serves to hide what is tarnished, which is of course why the staff prefer to keep the doors closed until they’ve had time to polish them.
> don’t know who you are, but I want you to know that I am proud to have
>David I. as VP Developer Relations.
David I has done nothing in the realm of developer relations, and is impossible to reach. Marco Cantu did more for developers before he was employed by EMBT than David I. did for developers.
>Over these many, many years I have only seen and heard David I. treat
>developers with respect and honesty.
Really? Another blogger wrote about David sending him e-mail asking him when he was going to “come down off of BS mountain”. A former TeamB’er revealed that during a face-to-face discussion at a conference she brought up some issues she felt could be improved in Delphi and as soon as the conversation turned to a fault with the product David **walked away as she was in mid-sentence**. The man behaves like a giant fanboy over and over again in the community – when he has any dealings with it at all, which appear to be only during EMBT-paid for world travel vacations. Another blog article had to shame him into responding after he promised to answer questions for a blogger then didn’t respond to the e-mail for two months. The blogger asked follow-up questions and again received no response. 🙁 This is developer relations?
>By reading the previous posts, you have failed in your stated purpose.
>You have not tarnished David I one bit.
>
>You can trash this post any way you like, I will not be back.
Typical of the true believers. Make claims with no supporting evidence, then run away so you don’t have to have them demolished with facts and evidence. 🙁
What actually were your questions you posted on his blog?
He didn’t approve the comment yet, and it would be nice to know at least the questions.
They were the same/similar as the ones I asked of “wink@wink.com”:
Since his post didn’t discuss how to set hardware dependencies or app permissions I asked how those were handled and if you needed to specify them whether they had to be specified differently for Android vs iOS (and how) ? The XE5 tutorial doesn’t cover this either (I have subsequently found)
I asked how big is the resulting app on Android ? And pointed out that mine is just 48KB – and that’s the debug build.
And I asked whether the app would run on an Tegra2 device. 😉
Yes, that last one was “snippy”, but I already put my hands up to that. I wear my snippy on my sleeve. 🙂
David I is in this business since years, (and I think you was not yet born). He has just done his job, demonstrating what you can do with 3 lines in Delphi, versus what you demonstrate in your previous post (even if it was interesting).
I don’t understand the time you loose fighting Embarcadero. On this side of the Earth whe have 24 Hours a day, maybe you have more in the South.
His three lines don’t do what my app does.
I think you’re overreacting, too. The confidentality footer simply should be ignored – it is automatically added by the company’s mail server for sure.
You’re feeling ripped off by Embarcadero since some time ago, which is easibly to read from some of your previous posts. I remember one where you found that they one year tried to increase the service agreement fee more than the percentage defined in the contract.
There are many reasons to be upset, be it quality, documentation flaws, compatibility or pricing.
The only thing I see is the “persiflage” of your original blog title in his own blog post title.
With Oxygene, it is possible to create platform-specific apps which work, using the amount of source code and specific handling that normally is needed when programming in the language recommended by or for that platform. Since it is so specific, it can’t be reused when changing platforms. One can use a Object-Pascal dialect with enhancements.
With Firemonkey, it is possible to create code partially platform-independent and the resulting apps work, using the minimum amount of source-code, resembling much of windows programming and using the Object-Pascal dialect known by delphi users, creating platform-processor-specific code which is not recommended by or for all supported platforms. Since it is so abstract, one becomes very dependent on the platform code fully and correctly implemented. It’s comfortable but buggy, slow, resource-hungry and incomplete. When trying to do something more specific not yet implemented, one ends up whith the same platform dependent mess as it is with oxygene.
He used the title and clearly referenced my series of articles despite the fact that his counter example isn’t even comparable and – if you see the subsequent comments that he has seen fit to approve – doesn’t even work on all supposedly supported Android devices, which surely is a factor to take into account before trumpeting the superiority of being able to deploy to multiple platforms.
Anyone can create apps that don’t work in no time at all. 😉
Embarcadero deserves to die.
Please… all readers… move to Lazarus/Freepascal or other BETTER languages (Python is a great start).
>(Python is a great start).
I think of it as Pascal++. 🙂 Guido Van Rossum read Nikaus Wirth’s writing on developing Modula-2 and he personally conferred with some of the Modula-3 development team, which lead to borrowing several ideas from them (including the exceptions implementation). You can see a lot of Pascal influence. Unlike C# and Java, Python offers first-class functions like Delphi and also nested functions, sets, etc. It embraces the idea of RAD that Delphi used to be about and makes developer productivity the #1 priority. I second this recommendation.
Whatever you choose, if you move to something more popular than Delphi you’ll discover books on the shelves, magazines in the racks, courses in the classroom (many free and online), significant 3rd party support including SDKs for popular services like Google’s offerings, Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, etc., physical conferences where attendance numbers in the hundreds or thousands (and higher in the case of Java!). You’ll even discover free books and conference videos. You’ll be able to use any IDE you choose and develop on (and target) Windows, OS X or Linux (and in some cases iOS and Android as well). You’ll discover a community that isn’t at war with itself with true believers battling those who are miserable but locked in. You’ll discover openness, trust, and putting the needs of the customer first. You’ll just be… happier. 🙂 Oh and there will probably be actual workplace demand for your newfound language skill as well, which can’t hurt.
I’ve been following your blog and find your articles to be quite honest attempts at looking at the products. It’s interesting to read comments from people that are glossing over your legitimate complaints and blindly supporting EMB and its proponents. I don’t understand why people think you’re overreacting. Sure, everyone knows those ridiculous, company-mandated confidentiality notices at the end of emails are completely unenforceable and I probably would’ve ignored them, but to see David I lift your article title and try to make Delphi’s approach to the same problem you solved with Oxygene seem so much simpler while not only leaving out many details but also failing to respond to your questions about his implementation, is inexcusable.
My one personal encounter with him was when he visited a Delphi user group for which I’m a coordinator several years ago during the CodeGear Delphi 2007 tour. That was when the help system was sadly broken and missing most of the information and examples that had been in previous versions. He tried to sooth over everyone’s frustrations by telling us that we didn’t need local help anymore–just Google it! Some people were so angry at this dismissive attitude, they got up and left. One reason this incident has stayed with me is that several people talked about that response and his overall attitude many times.
But more than this, I’ve watched many product announcements with David I proclaiming over and over the same half dozen new and awesome features rewording them slightly each time as if the more often he repeated them, the more new features there were (it may be that’s the only way to fill the time). I would have to agree with you that he’s reduced himself to nothing more than a salesman at this point. The articles by RO are refreshingly technical, detailed, and leave no questions about what they can and cannot do.